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BradGuth
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 Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
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The early or proto-human species as of during and then shortly after
the very last ice-age this Earth w/moon is ever going to see, as such
were extremely survival intelligent, much better off at their
surviving than the vast majority of supposedly highly educated humans
as of today could muster. As such they had often recorded whatever
was of keen interest or of whatever else was shock and awe worthy of
their era.
However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP, or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not until some time after 12,500 BP
that human notice was taken of any significant ocean tidal issues, of
any seasonal tilt variation worth their having to migrate, and of
absolutely nothing ever got recorded or otherwise noted as to their
environment having that terrifically vibrant moon, as so often from
time to time allowing them to see, hunt and gather by winter night
nearly as clear as by day.
Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at having
depicted their environment and of anything that truly mattered,
whereas such you'd have to rethink as to why such intelligent and
highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise entirely dumbfounded
and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded seasonal changes, ocean
tides and of that terrifically big old and bright looking moon of
ours.
What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
of our passive sun simply didn't have that moon as of prior to 12,500
BP?
Why as of today are such public owned supercomputer simulations on
behalf of running this alternative interpretation of the best
available science being sequestered or kept as taboo/nondisclosure
rated?
.. - Brad Guth |
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BradGuth
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
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On Mar 16, 12:54 pm, Timberwoof
<timberwoof.s...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
In article
c420c384-b7bd-4c01-b313-5109b0b92...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
The early or proto-human species as of during and then shortly after
the very last ice-age this Earth w/moon is ever going to see, as such
were extremely survival intelligent, much better off at their
surviving than the vast majority of supposedly highly educated humans
as of today could muster. As such they had often recorded whatever
was of keen interest or of whatever else was shock and awe worthy of
their era.
Hm. And your evidence for this is what, exactly?
|
I've been there and done that, as well as just having explained within
the entro-statement as to what's oddly missing from the scientific
record, that seems to fail us if trying to give this planet that
extremely big old moon as of prior to 12,500 BP.
How about a moon encounter, somewhat like Apophis 99942, except 4000
km in diameter and 8.5e22 kg worth of icy mass.
| Quote: |
However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP, or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not until some time after 12,500 BP
* as of prior to 12,500 BP
* somewhat more recent
* some time after
Make up your mind! If you're so uncertain about the date (and so keen on
accurate supercomputer simulations) when why do y ou present it with
three digits of accuracy?
|
I'm uncertain about a great many things, especially as of lately, in
my old age and all.
| Quote: |
that human notice was taken of any significant ocean tidal issues, of
any seasonal tilt variation worth their having to migrate, and of
absolutely nothing ever got recorded or otherwise noted as to their
environment having that terrifically vibrant moon, as so often from
time to time allowing them to see, hunt and gather by winter night
nearly as clear as by day.
Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at having
depicted their environment and of anything that truly mattered,
whereas such you'd have to rethink as to why such intelligent and
highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise entirely dumbfounded
and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded seasonal changes, ocean
tides and of that terrifically big old and bright looking moon of
ours.
Seems as if they didn't keep very good records of any kind about
anything before, oh, several thousand years BC.
|
You can't read? or are you also claiming as being legally blind as
well as dumb and dumber?
| Quote: |
What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
of our passive sun simply didn't have that moon as of prior to 12,500
BP?
What if you explain where the moon came from and by what mechanism it
achieved such a nicely almost-circular orbit?
|
For that I'll need to access our public supercomputer that's on lone
to NASA, and I'll even require some of your expertise for setting up a
few million simulations. Are you game?
| Quote: |
How do you propose that every living thing on earth suddenly adapted to
this fundamental change in the environment?
|
If you were relocated to another planet, say Mars or Venus; wouldn't
you adapt, or at least die trying?
| Quote: |
Why as of today are such public owned supercomputer simulations on
behalf of running this alternative interpretation of the best
available science being sequestered or kept as taboo/nondisclosure
rated?
I don't grant your premise that this is the "best available science".
The notion that the moon arrived recently is scientific quackery for
which there is zero evidence and for which there is plenty of evidence
the other way.
|
Is that why you're so deathly afraid to try? (because you mainstream
status quo doesn't like having its boat rocked?)
| Quote: |
I also don't grant your premises that such simulations are being run or
that they are being kept secret. It wouldn't take a supercomputer to
show that the moon arrived recently, so no one's wasting supercomputer
time on that problem. And if someone were doing that work, he'd publish
his results.
|
You have a right to think whatever you like.
| Quote: |
BTW, what public-owned supercomputers? Do you mean ones at universities?
(Please visithttp://www.top500.org/and tell us which ones you're
talking about. Then please explain what sort of math you think this
would take and which type of supercomputer would be most appropriate.)
|
You know exactly what I'm speaking of when I say public owned
supercomputer, such as the spendy 2048 CPU monster that's on lone to
our NASA.
Is there anything of our NASA or of most other government or state/
federal/tax funded whatever that isn't public owned?
Don't most corporations tend to lease and/or trade within their group
of sub-corporations or of their tax-avoidance offshore operations, so
as to wright off at least twice of whatever they paid for their
supercomputers, just so that the rest of us get to pay for absolutely
everything, and then some?
A whole lot better question is; how many entirely private
supercomputers (meaning as privately purchased as retail and having
since paid their full share of income and sales taxes on that amount)
and without their having since taken income or property tax
depreciation deductions are there?
.. - Brad Guth |
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brad
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
|
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On Mar 16, 4:31 pm, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
The early or proto-human species as of during and then shortly after
the very last ice-age this Earth w/moon is ever going to see, as such
were extremely survival intelligent, much better off at their
surviving than the vast majority of supposedly highly educated humans
as of today could muster. " survival intelligent " ?absolutely. As such they had often recorded whatever
was of keen interest or of whatever else was shock and awe worthy of
their era.
|
And if they were here to read your posts they'd be dismayed at the
evolutionary left turn you
took .
| Quote: |
However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP, or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not until some time after 12,500 BP
that human notice was taken of any significant ocean tidal issues, of
any seasonal tilt variation worth their having to migrate, and of
absolutely nothing ever got recorded or otherwise noted as to their
environment having that terrifically vibrant moon, as so often from
time to time allowing them to see, hunt and gather by winter night
nearly as clear as by day.
|
Do you hunt and gather by winter
moonlight ?
| Quote: |
Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at
having
depicted their environment and of anything that truly mattered,
whereas such you'd have to rethink as to why such intelligent and
highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise entirely dumbfounded
and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded seasonal changes, ocean
tides and of that terrifically big old and bright looking moon of
ours.
|
Seems , as such like , otherwise ; at least to
me.
What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
| Quote: |
of our passive sun simply didn't have that moon as of prior to 12,500
BP?
. - Brad Guth
|
W.H. Bradley counted varves in the Green River Formation and estimated
the associated epoch lasted 5 - 8 my . In total 650m thick . Holmes ,
" Principles of Physical Geology " |
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BradGuth
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
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|
On Mar 16, 1:31 pm, brad <lbjohnson1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Mar 16, 4:31 pm, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
The early or proto-human species as of during and then shortly after
the very last ice-age this Earth w/moon is ever going to see, as such
were extremely survival intelligent, much better off at their
surviving than the vast majority of supposedly highly educated humans
as of today could muster. " survival intelligent " ?absolutely. > > As such they had often recorded whatever
was of keen interest or of whatever else was shock and awe worthy of
their era.
And if they were here to read your posts they'd be dismayed at the
evolutionary left turn you took .
|
You think they too had a false elected LLPOF warlord as their resident
leader, along with puppet strings attached to some weird faith-based
mindset of global domination?
| Quote: |
However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP, or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not until some time after 12,500 BP
that human notice was taken of any significant ocean tidal issues, of
any seasonal tilt variation worth their having to migrate, and of
absolutely nothing ever got recorded or otherwise noted as to their
environment having that terrifically vibrant moon, as so often from
time to time allowing them to see, hunt and gather by winter night
nearly as clear as by day.
Do you hunt and gather by winter moonlight ?
|
If I and my family or community needed food, fuel or shelter, as such
if need be I'd be out there hunting and gathering by starlight, and if
having moonlight, all the better.
| Quote: |
Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at
having
depicted their environment and of anything that truly mattered,
whereas such you'd have to rethink as to why such intelligent and
highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise entirely dumbfounded
and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded seasonal changes, ocean
tides and of that terrifically big old and bright looking moon of
ours.
W.H. Bradley counted varves in the Green River Formation and estimated
the associated epoch lasted 5 - 8 my . In total 650m thick . Holmes ,
" Principles of Physical Geology "
|
If you like that sort of swag, and its what makes you a happy camper,
then so be it. I'm not saying that Earth is young, just suggesting
that it didn't have that moon as of prior to 12,500 BP. Earth could
have had some other orbiting factors, even another mascon worthy moon
as of prior to 12,500 BP, although none of that offers an answer as to
accounting for those multiple 100,000 year ice-age cycles (of shorter
cycles as going back in time).
Interstellar rogue stuff happens all the time, and as such rogue items
are either going to lithobrake and/or semi-destruct by way of
encountering something along its path, or otherwise it's going to
eventually end up orbiting something along its path, if not returning
to its origin.
.. - Brad Guth |
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Timberwoof
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: Re: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
|
|
In article
<c420c384-b7bd-4c01-b313-5109b0b92b07@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
BradGuth <bradguth@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
The early or proto-human species as of during and then shortly after
the very last ice-age this Earth w/moon is ever going to see, as such
were extremely survival intelligent, much better off at their
surviving than the vast majority of supposedly highly educated humans
as of today could muster. As such they had often recorded whatever
was of keen interest or of whatever else was shock and awe worthy of
their era.
|
Hm. And your evidence for this is what, exactly?
| Quote: |
However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP, or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not until some time after 12,500 BP
|
* as of prior to 12,500 BP
* somewhat more recent
* some time after
Make up your mind! If you're so uncertain about the date (and so keen on
accurate supercomputer simulations) when why do y ou present it with
three digits of accuracy?
| Quote: |
that human notice was taken of any significant ocean tidal issues, of
any seasonal tilt variation worth their having to migrate, and of
absolutely nothing ever got recorded or otherwise noted as to their
environment having that terrifically vibrant moon, as so often from
time to time allowing them to see, hunt and gather by winter night
nearly as clear as by day.
Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at having
depicted their environment and of anything that truly mattered,
whereas such you'd have to rethink as to why such intelligent and
highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise entirely dumbfounded
and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded seasonal changes, ocean
tides and of that terrifically big old and bright looking moon of
ours.
|
Seems as if they didn't keep very good records of any kind about
anything before, oh, several thousand years BC.
| Quote: |
What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
of our passive sun simply didn't have that moon as of prior to 12,500
BP?
|
What if you explain where the moon came from and by what mechanism it
achieved such a nicely almost-circular orbit?
How do you propose that every living thing on earth suddenly adapted to
this fundamental change in the environment?
| Quote: |
Why as of today are such public owned supercomputer simulations on
behalf of running this alternative interpretation of the best
available science being sequestered or kept as taboo/nondisclosure
rated?
|
I don't grant your premise that this is the "best available science".
The notion that the moon arrived recently is scientific quackery for
which there is zero evidence and for which there is plenty of evidence
the other way.
I also don't grant your premises that such simulations are being run or
that they are being kept secret. It wouldn't take a supercomputer to
show that the moon arrived recently, so no one's wasting supercomputer
time on that problem. And if someone were doing that work, he'd publish
his results.
BTW, what public-owned supercomputers? Do you mean ones at universities?
(Please visit http://www.top500.org/ and tell us which ones you're
talking about. Then please explain what sort of math you think this
would take and which type of supercomputer would be most appropriate.)
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L. |
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Matt Giwer
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: Re: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
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Timberwoof wrote:
| Quote: |
In article
c420c384-b7bd-4c01-b313-5109b0b92b07@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
BradGuth <bradguth@gmail.com> wrote:
The early or proto-human species as of during and then shortly after
the very last ice-age this Earth w/moon is ever going to see, as such
were extremely survival intelligent, much better off at their
surviving than the vast majority of supposedly highly educated humans
as of today could muster. As such they had often recorded whatever
was of keen interest or of whatever else was shock and awe worthy of
their era.
Hm. And your evidence for this is what, exactly?
|
On sci.astro.seti Brad is our comic relief. Posting to him is wasted. He is
impervious to reason and physics.
--
The good thing about the new Roman Catholic deadly sins is that no matter
how hard we try most of us can't commit them. Take becoming obscenely
wealthy. I have tried to do that for decades and have remained among the
righteous.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3955
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo/nizgas3.html a4 |
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Timberwoof
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
|
|
In article
<220ae8c5-b1e7-4821-9298-d6c883beb45c@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
BradGuth <bradguth@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
W.H. Bradley counted varves in the Green River Formation and estimated
the associated epoch lasted 5 - 8 my . In total 650m thick . Holmes ,
" Principles of Physical Geology "
If you like that sort of swag, and its what makes you a happy camper,
then so be it. I'm not saying that Earth is young, just suggesting
that it didn't have that moon as of prior to 12,500 BP. Earth could
have had some other orbiting factors, even another mascon worthy moon
as of prior to 12,500 BP, although none of that offers an answer as to
accounting for those multiple 100,000 year ice-age cycles (of shorter
cycles as going back in time).
|
So you're saying that fossils that were probably created by the moon's
tidal effects were not, but were caused by some other equally heavy
object, but which was light enough to have allowed the ice ages to
happen.
.... Even though you have not come up with any reason why the moon's
presence in the past 12000 years is supposed to have stopped ice ages,
which have been happening at roughly 100,000-year intervals for the past
roughly half a million years.
| Quote: |
Interstellar rogue stuff happens all the time,
|
Why couldn't "Interstellar rogue stuff" be responsible for the ice ages
even with the moon present pretty much since the Earth was created?
| Quote: |
and as such rogue items
are either going to lithobrake
|
You mean hitting something.
| Quote: |
and/or semi-destruct by way of
encountering something along its path, or otherwise it's going to
eventually end up orbiting something along its path, if not returning
to its origin.
|
Have you done the math for Earth-moon orbital capture?
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L. |
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Timberwoof
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
|
|
In article
<5ee0117c-e925-420f-b87c-91c5b6462b04@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
BradGuth <bradguth@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Mar 16, 12:54 pm, Timberwoof
timberwoof.s...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:
In article
c420c384-b7bd-4c01-b313-5109b0b92...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
The early or proto-human species as of during and then shortly after
the very last ice-age this Earth w/moon is ever going to see, as such
were extremely survival intelligent, much better off at their
surviving than the vast majority of supposedly highly educated humans
as of today could muster. As such they had often recorded whatever
was of keen interest or of whatever else was shock and awe worthy of
their era.
Hm. And your evidence for this is what, exactly?
I've been there and done that, as well as just having explained within
the entro-statement as to what's oddly missing from the scientific
record, that seems to fail us if trying to give this planet that
extremely big old moon
|
The kind of evidence you insist on is expected to be lacking; the kind
of evidence people show you instead, you ignore.
| Quote: |
as of prior to 12,500 BP.
|
"As of prior to". What the hell does that mean?
| Quote: |
How about a moon encounter, somewhat like Apophis 99942, except 4000
km in diameter and 8.5e22 kg worth of icy mass.
|
How about you show how the moon would be captured into a nearly circular
orbit?
| Quote: |
However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP, or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not until some time after 12,500 BP
* as of prior to 12,500 BP
* somewhat more recent
* some time after
Make up your mind! If you're so uncertain about the date (and so keen on
accurate supercomputer simulations) when why do y ou present it with
three digits of accuracy?
I'm uncertain about a great many things, especially as of lately, in
my old age and all.
|
That doesn't speak well for your hypothesis.
| Quote: |
that human notice was taken of any significant ocean tidal issues, of
any seasonal tilt variation worth their having to migrate, and of
absolutely nothing ever got recorded or otherwise noted as to their
environment having that terrifically vibrant moon, as so often from
time to time allowing them to see, hunt and gather by winter night
nearly as clear as by day.
Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at having
depicted their environment and of anything that truly mattered,
whereas such you'd have to rethink as to why such intelligent and
highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise entirely dumbfounded
and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded seasonal changes, ocean
tides and of that terrifically big old and bright looking moon of
ours.
Seems as if they didn't keep very good records of any kind about
anything before, oh, several thousand years BC.
You can't read? or are you also claiming as being legally blind as
well as dumb and dumber?
|
Instead of explaining it, you've descended into ad-hominem.
| Quote: |
What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
of our passive sun simply didn't have that moon as of prior to 12,500
BP?
What if you explain where the moon came from and by what mechanism it
achieved such a nicely almost-circular orbit?
For that I'll need to access our public supercomputer that's on lone
to NASA, and I'll even require some of your expertise for setting up a
few million simulations. Are you game?
|
You don't need a supercomputer to do that calculation. You just need
some basic understanding of algebra and the math of orbital mechanics
.... which I strongly urge you to become familiar with.
| Quote: |
How do you propose that every living thing on earth suddenly adapted to
this fundamental change in the environment?
If you were relocated to another planet, say Mars or Venus; wouldn't
you adapt, or at least die trying?
|
That's not an answer to the question.
| Quote: |
Why as of today are such public owned supercomputer simulations on
behalf of running this alternative interpretation of the best
available science being sequestered or kept as taboo/nondisclosure
rated?
I don't grant your premise that this is the "best available science".
The notion that the moon arrived recently is scientific quackery for
which there is zero evidence and for which there is plenty of evidence
the other way.
Is that why you're so deathly afraid to try? (because you mainstream
status quo doesn't like having its boat rocked?)
|
To try what? I'd like to see you come up with simple calculations that
show how the Earth could have captured the moon and leave it in a
near-circular orbit as far back as astronomical records have been kept.
You don't need a supercomputer to do that.
| Quote: |
I also don't grant your premises that such simulations are being run or
that they are being kept secret. It wouldn't take a supercomputer to
show that the moon arrived recently, so no one's wasting supercomputer
time on that problem. And if someone were doing that work, he'd publish
his results.
You have a right to think whatever you like.
|
In other words, you don't believe what I said but you have absolutely no
evidence whatsoever to refute it.
| Quote: |
BTW, what public-owned supercomputers? Do you mean ones at universities?
(Please visithttp://www.top500.org/and tell us which ones you're
talking about. Then please explain what sort of math you think this
would take and which type of supercomputer would be most appropriate.)
You know exactly what I'm speaking of when I say public owned
supercomputer, such as the spendy 2048 CPU monster that's on lone to
our NASA.
|
No, I don't. Tell me its name, who made it, who runs it, and I could
research it.
| Quote: |
Is there anything of our NASA or of most other government or state/
federal/tax funded whatever that isn't public owned?
Don't most corporations tend to lease and/or trade within their group
of sub-corporations or of their tax-avoidance offshore operations, so
as to wright off at least twice of whatever they paid for their
supercomputers, just so that the rest of us get to pay for absolutely
everything, and then some?
A whole lot better question is; how many entirely private
supercomputers (meaning as privately purchased as retail and having
since paid their full share of income and sales taxes on that amount)
and without their having since taken income or property tax
depreciation deductions are there?
|
That's all off-topic and has nothing to do with your thesis.
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L. |
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Art Deco
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
|
|
BradGuth <bradguth@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
The early or proto-human species as of during and then shortly after
the very last ice-age this Earth w/moon is ever going to see, as such
were extremely survival intelligent, much better off at their
surviving than the vast majority of supposedly highly educated humans
as of today could muster. As such they had often recorded whatever
was of keen interest or of whatever else was shock and awe worthy of
their era.
However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP, or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not until some time after 12,500 BP
that human notice was taken of any significant ocean tidal issues, of
any seasonal tilt variation worth their having to migrate, and of
absolutely nothing ever got recorded or otherwise noted as to their
environment having that terrifically vibrant moon, as so often from
time to time allowing them to see, hunt and gather by winter night
nearly as clear as by day.
Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at having
depicted their environment and of anything that truly mattered,
whereas such you'd have to rethink as to why such intelligent and
highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise entirely dumbfounded
and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded seasonal changes, ocean
tides and of that terrifically big old and bright looking moon of
ours.
What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
of our passive sun simply didn't have that moon as of prior to 12,500
BP?
Why as of today are such public owned supercomputer simulations on
behalf of running this alternative interpretation of the best
available science being sequestered or kept as taboo/nondisclosure
rated?
. - Brad Guth
|
How very profound, Brad, you're perfect alt.astronomy science ossifer
material. Just give your application to fro0tbat.
--
"Classic erroneous presupposition."
-- David Tholen |
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Robert Casey
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
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BradGuth wrote:
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However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP, or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not until some time after 12,500 BP
that human notice was taken of any significant ocean tidal issues, of
any seasonal tilt variation worth their having to migrate, and of
absolutely nothing ever got recorded or otherwise noted as to their
environment having that terrifically vibrant moon, as so often from
time to time allowing them to see, hunt and gather by winter night
nearly as clear as by day.
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You have to invent reading and writing before you could record things
first. That didn't happen until around 10,000 BC. Before that, nobody
could write down "The Moon just showed up last month"...
And most people, even after reading and writing was invented, wouldn't
bother to record stuff that everyone already knows about. Especially if
writing materials are expensive and hard to obtain. |
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BradGuth
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
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On Mar 16, 4:18 pm, Matt Giwer <jul...@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Timberwoof wrote:
In article
c420c384-b7bd-4c01-b313-5109b0b92...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
The early or proto-human species as of during and then shortly after
the very last ice-age this Earth w/moon is ever going to see, as such
were extremely survival intelligent, much better off at their
surviving than the vast majority of supposedly highly educated humans
as of today could muster. As such they had often recorded whatever
was of keen interest or of whatever else was shock and awe worthy of
their era.
Hm. And your evidence for this is what, exactly?
On sci.astro.seti Brad is our comic relief. Posting to him is wasted. He is
impervious to reason and physics.
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Is that why you're all so deathly afraid of what such good
supercomputer eye-candy simulations as based upon the regular laws of
physics and of the best available science might actually depict?
Is that why your semitic dominated Usenet that's so deathly afraid of
its own cloak and dagger shadow continually runs key words together
with whatever adjoining words, so that a normal "search for" on behalf
of the most recent of topic contributions simply doesn't properly
function?
Seems I'm the only one here having an open and otherwise deductive
mindset, as obviously you folks are consistently the ones having to
exclude deductive thinking, having to use conditional physics and
otherwise having to exclude evidence, as well as your having to stalk,
bash and banish those who dare rock your mainstream boat.
.. - Brad Guth |
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BradGuth
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
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On Mar 17, 9:14 am, "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Matt Giwer" <jul...@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote
Timberwoof wrote:
BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
The early or proto-human species as of during and then shortly after
the very last ice-age this Earth w/moon is ever going to see,
Hm. And your evidence for this is what, exactly?
On sci.astro.seti Brad is our comic relief. Posting to him is wasted. He
is
impervious to reason and physics.
Thanks Matt, got kinda interested, read wikipedia - moon, then Cruithne,
then Lilith. Interesting side-bar quote, "Due to the many readily apparent
holes in Lilith's supportive argument (not least of which is her general
defiance of the laws of gravity) the actual physical existence of this
astronomical object is believed only by fringe groups comparable to the Flat
Earth Society."
To BradGuth, seems to my unschooled in this area logic,
that the biggest flaw in your thoughts comes from fact,
"The Moon is in synchronous rotation, meaning that it keeps nearly the same
face turned towards the Earth at all times. Early in the Moon's history, its
rotation slowed and became locked in this configuration as a result of
frictional effects associated with tidal deformations caused by the Earth."
That would probably take a REAL considerable time -
i.e. much over 13,000 years.
Unless of course, it was just created then and there,
almost exactly as we now observe it to be.
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Venus as it passes extremely close by every 19 months, as such is
nearly as moon like tidal locked to Earth. So what's your point?
What exactly do you not understand about a lithobraking encounter of
an icy proto-moon (be it complex)?
While you're at it; do tell us where that terrific arctic ocean basin
came from?
How about telling us when Earth got the vast majority of its seasonal
tilt?
.. - Brad Guth |
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BradGuth
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
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On Mar 16, 5:55 pm, Timberwoof <timberwoof.s...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
In article
5ee0117c-e925-420f-b87c-91c5b6462...@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mar 16, 12:54 pm, Timberwoof
timberwoof.s...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:
In article
c420c384-b7bd-4c01-b313-5109b0b92...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
The early or proto-human species as of during and then shortly after
the very last ice-age this Earth w/moon is ever going to see, as such
were extremely survival intelligent, much better off at their
surviving than the vast majority of supposedly highly educated humans
as of today could muster. As such they had often recorded whatever
was of keen interest or of whatever else was shock and awe worthy of
their era.
Hm. And your evidence for this is what, exactly?
I've been there and done that, as well as just having explained within
the entro-statement as to what's oddly missing from the scientific
record, that seems to fail us if trying to give this planet that
extremely big old moon
The kind of evidence you insist on is expected to be lacking; the kind
of evidence people show you instead, you ignore.
|
In this topic, those other conjectures or best SWAG of whatever you
call the one and only truth doesn't count.
What opening part of the goodwill jest or intent of this topic didn't
you understand?
| Quote: |
as of prior to 12,500 BP.
"As of prior to". What the hell does that mean?
How about a moon encounter, somewhat like Apophis 99942, except 4000
km in diameter and 8.5e22 kg worth of icy mass.
How about you show how the moon would be captured into a nearly circular
orbit?
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As I'd said before, that such needs a good supercomputer, because it's
not nearly as simple or as clear-cut as you suggest. The encounter
velocity could have been of a fairly low velocity, as a rear-ender
sort of glancing sucker-punch that induced the bulk of Earth's
seasonal tilt. Working this what-if in reverse order may prove as
worthy enough to start off with.
Are you suggesting that velocity, gravity, angle of a glancing
encounter or transfer of icy mass plays no part in this?
OOPS! how about a Venus like planet w/moon cruising past but just
well enough outside of Earth's L1? (but do you even get where I'm
going with this?)
How many hundred basic what-ifs would you like to ponder?
| Quote: |
However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP, or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not until some time after 12,500 BP
* as of prior to 12,500 BP
* somewhat more recent
* some time after
Make up your mind! If you're so uncertain about the date (and so keen on
accurate supercomputer simulations) when why do y ou present it with
three digits of accuracy?
I'm uncertain about a great many things, especially as of lately, in
my old age and all.
That doesn't speak well for your hypothesis.
|
Nor does this dyslexic wordage encryption that I have to continually
deal with, speak well on my behalf. Sorry about that.
| Quote: |
that human notice was taken of any significant ocean tidal issues, of
any seasonal tilt variation worth their having to migrate, and of
absolutely nothing ever got recorded or otherwise noted as to their
environment having that terrifically vibrant moon, as so often from
time to time allowing them to see, hunt and gather by winter night
nearly as clear as by day.
Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at having
depicted their environment and of anything that truly mattered,
whereas such you'd have to rethink as to why such intelligent and
highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise entirely dumbfounded
and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded seasonal changes, ocean
tides and of that terrifically big old and bright looking moon of
ours.
Seems as if they didn't keep very good records of any kind about
anything before, oh, several thousand years BC.
You can't read? or are you also claiming as being legally blind as
well as dumb and dumber?
Instead of explaining it, you've descended into ad-hominem.
|
If "ad-hominem" is what you call sharing the truth as best can be
deductively interpreted, then so be it.
| Quote: |
What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
of our passive sun simply didn't have that moon as of prior to 12,500
BP?
What if you explain where the moon came from and by what mechanism it
achieved such a nicely almost-circular orbit?
For that I'll need to access our public supercomputer that's on lone
to NASA, and I'll even require some of your expertise for setting up a
few million simulations. Are you game?
You don't need a supercomputer to do that calculation. You just need
some basic understanding of algebra and the math of orbital mechanics
... which I strongly urge you to become familiar with.
|
In other words, the sorts of all-knowing folks like yourself would not
dare run off a few million of those complex (aka trial and error)
multibody simulations, as required in order to fine-tune and thus
polish and nail this one down. (no status quo or bust kind of surprise
there)
| Quote: |
How do you propose that every living thing on earth suddenly adapted to
this fundamental change in the environment?
If you were relocated to another planet, say Mars or Venus; wouldn't
you adapt, or at least die trying?
That's not an answer to the question.
|
Yes, it actually was a very good answer that you and others of your
terrestrial-only w/moon kind refuse to accept. You can put complex
sea life into a dark lab with only an artificial sun and moon, or of
using just one or the other, and subsequently trick that sequestered
life into adapting and/or mutating within hardly any time at all, as
to adapting to whatever artificial stimulus you'd care to impose.
Lack of gravity is yet another adaptation that gets a fast mutation
result or response, though usually it's not for the better.
| Quote: |
Why as of today are such public owned supercomputer simulations on
behalf of running this alternative interpretation of the best
available science being sequestered or kept as taboo/nondisclosure
rated?
I don't grant your premise that this is the "best available science".
The notion that the moon arrived recently is scientific quackery for
which there is zero evidence and for which there is plenty of evidence
the other way.
Is that why you're so deathly afraid to try? (because you mainstream
status quo doesn't like having its boat rocked?)
To try what? I'd like to see you come up with simple calculations that
show how the Earth could have captured the moon and leave it in a
near-circular orbit as far back as astronomical records have been kept.
You don't need a supercomputer to do that.
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If you can't possibly help, then perhaps myself or others will have to
do just that.
BTW, I've already proposed several viable encounter alternatives
outside of this current topic. Of course each and every one is likely
too complex for mere words or numbers that you'll continually twist in
order disqualify at each and every turn in the road, especially
complex with so much energy taking place and the transfer of such icy
mass taken away from our proto-moon is what leaves much for that
supercomputer of extremely complex simulations to work with.
| Quote: |
I also don't grant your premises that such simulations are being run or
that they are being kept secret. It wouldn't take a supercomputer to
show that the moon arrived recently, so no one's wasting supercomputer
time on that problem. And if someone were doing that work, he'd publish
his results.
You have a right to think whatever you like.
In other words, you don't believe what I said but you have absolutely no
evidence whatsoever to refute it.
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I didn't say that, but if you like making it look and/or sound as
though I'm another all-knowing village idiot like yourself, then so be
it. By all means, never think outside the that cozy mainstream box,
as you might get that brown-nose of yours bent out of shape.
| Quote: |
BTW, what public-owned supercomputers? Do you mean ones at universities?
(Please visithttp://www.top500.org/andtell us which ones you're
talking about. Then please explain what sort of math you think this
would take and which type of supercomputer would be most appropriate.)
You know exactly what I'm speaking of when I say public owned
supercomputer, such as the spendy 2048 CPU monster that's on lone to
our NASA.
No, I don't. Tell me its name, who made it, who runs it, and I could
research it.
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Good freaking grief almighty on a stick, do a basic 'search for' ***
NASA Supercomputer ***, it has 2048 fast CPUs and spendy butt loads of
absolutely everything else necessary. I believe it's within the
hands of NASA's JPL.
| Quote: |
Is there anything of our NASA or of most other government or state/
federal/tax funded whatever that isn't public owned?
Don't most corporations tend to lease and/or trade within their group
of sub-corporations or of their tax-avoidance offshore operations, so
as to wright off at least twice of whatever they paid for their
supercomputers, just so that the rest of us get to pay for absolutely
everything, and then some?
A whole lot better question is; how many entirely private
supercomputers (meaning as privately purchased as retail and having
since paid their full share of income and sales taxes on that amount)
and without their having since taken income or property tax
depreciation deductions are there?
That's all off-topic and has nothing to do with your thesis.
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Well aren't you extra special, and isn't that too freaking bad
because, it's my topic. Don't like it! then create your own status
quo or bust topic. Pretend that such public owned supercomputers
don't exist all you want.
.. - Brad Guth |
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Saul Levy
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:11 am Post subject: Re: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
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Just define fake atheist, Brad! lmao!
Saul Levy
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 03:30:43 -0700 (PDT), BradGuth
<bradguth@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Is that why you're all so deathly afraid of what such good
supercomputer eye-candy simulations as based upon the regular laws of
physics and of the best available science might actually depict?
Is that why your semitic dominated Usenet that's so deathly afraid of
its own cloak and dagger shadow continually runs key words together
with whatever adjoining words, so that a normal "search for" on behalf
of the most recent of topic contributions simply doesn't properly
function?
Seems I'm the only one here having an open and otherwise deductive
mindset, as obviously you folks are consistently the ones having to
exclude deductive thinking, having to use conditional physics and
otherwise having to exclude evidence, as well as your having to stalk,
bash and banish those who dare rock your mainstream boat.
. - Brad Guth |
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Saul Levy
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:18 am Post subject: Re: Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth |
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You win the Don Quixote Memorial Prize, Brad! lmao! Your service to
meaningless drivel is top notch! lmao!
Sirius, by the way, has no effect on Earth.
As for using a PC for even horridly complicated calculations,
Timberwolf is perfectly correct! Note how the first atomic bombs were
designed. No supercomputers back then! lmao!
Get thyself a mathematician or two! lmao!
Saul Levy
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 04:27:23 -0700 (PDT), BradGuth
<bradguth@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Mar 16, 5:42 pm, Timberwoof <timberwoof.s...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com
wrote:
In article
220ae8c5-b1e7-4821-9298-d6c883beb...@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
W.H. Bradley counted varves in the Green River Formation and estimated
the associated epoch lasted 5 - 8 my . In total 650m thick . Holmes ,
" Principles of Physical Geology "
If you like that sort of swag, and its what makes you a happy camper,
then so be it. I'm not saying that Earth is young, just suggesting
that it didn't have that moon as of prior to 12,500 BP. Earth could
have had some other orbiting factors, even another mascon worthy moon
as of prior to 12,500 BP, although none of that offers an answer as to
accounting for those multiple 100,000 year ice-age cycles (of shorter
cycles as going back in time).
So you're saying that fossils that were probably created by the moon's
tidal effects were not, but were caused by some other equally heavy
object, but which was light enough to have allowed the ice ages to
happen.
Clearly you're looking at every possible weird angle in order to
distort or force out of context the greater intent and goodwill of
this topic.
What I'm saying is that a few million simulations by way of our best
supercomputer(s) couldn't possibly hurt one damn thing.
If you want to forever believe in some previous conjecture or best
mainstream SWAG that is government and/or of whatever's faith-based
published as being the one and only interpretation that's worth all
the tea in China, so to speak, then so be it.
... Even though you have not come up with any reason why the moon's
presence in the past 12000 years is supposed to have stopped ice ages,
which have been happening at roughly 100,000-year intervals for the past
roughly half a million years.
You've got to be kidding. Clearly your nayism mindset is in charge of
your private parts, and/or you have absolutely not a freaking clue
about physics. Do you even think or much less read what you type?
This topic of mine isn't new, as I've tried multiple times before to
get this notion across, and lo and behold it seems nothing has changed
about this anti-think-tank Usenet from naysay hell on Earth. If this
Usenet were of any more nayism, as such it would turn itself into a
black hole, sucking the life out of anything that dares touch or even
gets close to its nayism event horizon.
Interstellar rogue stuff happens all the time,
Why couldn't "Interstellar rogue stuff" be responsible for the ice ages
even with the moon present pretty much since the Earth was created?
I'd agree that an interstellar encounter on the order of an elliptical
100,000 year orbital cycle (more frequent as going back in time) is by
far the most likely cause of our previous ice-ages and subsequent
thaws w/o moon. However, w/moon it has become next to impossible for
this planet to recycle itself back into another ice-age, even if all
human factors were removed and we remained furthest away from the
impressive Sirius star/solar system may forever preclude this planet
from seeing another ice-age.
and as such rogue items are either going to lithobrake
You mean hitting something.
Correct, such as in a direct blow, or as more than likely a glancing
blow, whereas best accomplished as a rear-end sucker-punch kind of
glancing encounter is what could extract sufficient encounter velocity
and transfer of icy mass that could have placed such an icy proto-moon
into orbiting Earth. This may have actually taken more than one
encounter, somewhat like a certain NEO that has been getting closer
each time it comes by.
and/or semi-destruct by way of
encountering something along its path, or otherwise it's going to
eventually end up orbiting something along its path, if not returning
to its origin.
Have you done the math for Earth-moon orbital capture?
No I have not, because I'm either not nearly as Einstein smart as
others like yourself, or more than likely because it's actually
extremely complex considering all of the weird multibody and physical
encounter factors involved. Therefore, we need to employ a
supercomputer that has all of the required physics software within its
vast archive of accomplishing such complex matters as we essentially
go back in time, rather than forward as you folks keep insisting can
be accomplished by way of any old PC.
. - Brad Guth |
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